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Offline sonicam

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Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« on: April 15, 2007, 03:47:32 PM »
The long awaited MegaMan Center has arived (ok, long awaited by SJ, magnum and I...). A few games are up, one or more from each series. At the moment, there is contemplation about MegaMan X5-6, Xtreme series, the Zero series and the addition of the Level "Game Completion". Concerns are as follows:

MegaMan X5 and X6: Should there be a split between X and Zero? Should we mandate all Mavericks defeated, allow any number defeated, or have respective levels for the two for the Level "Game Completion"? Should Normal and Xtreme difficulty modes be split?

MegaMan Xtreme series: The Xtreme series, at the moment, has a screwy compeitition. In order to submit a time, you'd have to have a file ready and record the current time on the save file. Then, play a stage and complete it. Save again and record your new time. Subtracting the two would result in your time for that stage. This is very time consuming, annoying and unreliable as your recording is very error prone (you aren't shown centi/milli-seconds). We are still contemplating on what to do about this. MegaMan Xtreme 2 Boss Attack is up though.

MegaMan Zero series: The problems with the MegaMan Zero series is the abuse of Cyber Elves, "Weapon Training" and Ultimate Mode. Cyber Elves are at the moment banned from competition as they prove as an extreme advantage. Weapon Training is in the same boat. Theoretically, you are allowed to train your weapons after you clear the Opening Stage, before going on to the next mission. One would be able to train the weapon all the way up to the max level, having a clear advantage over any other competitor who just went onto the next mission without training. Just think about it, having a fully leveled Saber against the Aztec Falcon, complete pwnage. Should this be a legit tactic? As for Ultimate Mode, IMO, it's useless as it's just a Very Easy Mode. It's the same as Normal Mode, but you have all Sub Tanks, Max HPs, and IIRC, fully upgraded Weapons. Is there really a use?

Game Completion: This level is under speculation since it's a one time thing, especially with the MegaMan Battle Network series, which can take hours and hours to clear. I've grown to be a little bit against due to the burden of requiring to erase our games and do this trial. Any suggestions?

Please adhere to concerns and refrain from submitting to levels/divisions that are under speculation. Anything else is fair game!
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Offline magnum12

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Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2007, 04:42:08 PM »
-MMX 5 and 6: I vote for a split between X and Zero since they have radically different play styles. I'd suggest defeating all mavericks for game completion. What differences are there between normal and Xtreme mode? I know that in MMX8, the only major difference for TAing is that bosses go into overdrive mode a little earlier (only affects Gateway).
-MMZ Series: I'd say allow weapon training. Its more like going through stages in the MMX series and getting the upgrades first, then dying before fighting the bosses. This form of training should probably be encouraged. (I'll have to make a MMZ newbie guide and highlight that point.) Weapon training is not an issue with Z3 and Z4 since all weapons start at max level. I'm undecided about ultimate mode. The one reason we could justify keeping this is that it shows the absolute limits of how fast the game can go since you also get a lot of the elf properties (higher speed, +1 damage for weapons, spike resistance. Then again, it is the very easy mode.
-Game Completion: I think that the total category does a similar job, thus we probably don't need game completion.
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Offline sonicam

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Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2007, 05:58:36 PM »
For MegaMan X5+6, Xtreme mode has more enemies and I think bosses have more HPs. As for Game Completion, it can be radically different to require all Mavericks and to jump straight to the final stages. It can incorporate different strategies in order take on the Zero Virus levels with the bare essentials, and maybe a special weapon or two. There are a lot of combinations in an Any% completion. but yea, there might be some redundancy, hmm....

For MegaMan Zero series, yea, that's why I don't think it should be competed in, if anything, maybe just a Freestyle, but Freestyle sucks. :x

For Game Completion, yea, but not for MMBN. Most bosses in MMBN will take seconds, but the game itself can take hours, heh, I guess that alone means it should be scraped.

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Offline magnum12

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Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2007, 09:17:29 PM »
In terms of game specific rules, I don't think we'll need rules determining the difficulty to be used since the general rules mandate the use of normal mode unless specified otherwise. BTW, MMBN 4 and 5 are ready for play. My MMZ For Newbies guide is ready, but due to things acting screwy, I ended up submitting the same guide 5 times.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2007, 09:53:53 PM by magnum12 »
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Offline eggFL

Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2007, 10:29:57 PM »
Quote
MegaMan X5 and X6: Should there be a split between X and Zero? Should we mandate all Mavericks defeated, allow any number defeated, or have respective levels for the two for the Level "Game Completion"? Should Normal and Xtreme difficulty modes be split?

All of the above.

Quote
Game Completion: This level is under speculation since it's a one time thing, especially with the MegaMan Battle Network series, which can take hours and hours to clear. I've grown to be a little bit against due to the burden of requiring to erase our games and do this trial. Any suggestions?

Do it. RPG speed runs are really cool. Who actually needs their Battle Network saves?

Quote
MegaMan Zero series: The problems with the MegaMan Zero series is the abuse of Cyber Elves, "Weapon Training" and Ultimate Mode. Cyber Elves are at the moment banned from competition as they prove as an extreme advantage. Weapon Training is in the same boat. Theoretically, you are allowed to train your weapons after you clear the Opening Stage, before going on to the next mission. One would be able to train the weapon all the way up to the max level, having a clear advantage over any other competitor who just went onto the next mission without training. Just think about it, having a fully leveled Saber against the Aztec Falcon, complete pwnage. Should this be a legit tactic?

ehh... what if you banned higher levels depending on the stage. But that sucks because you'd have to decide on a weapon level limit for each stage.

Or no... how about you make any weapon level allowed. So it's a matter of everyone maxing out their weapons... and having TMMC fully endorse this strategy. So beyond that the competition is clean and fair. It's tedious but it's a good solution right?

Offline Rick_242

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Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2007, 08:35:36 PM »
The BN series still need to go up. <_<

Also, are we only TAing the V3 navis in BN:3? Seems... complicated as you might have a problem getting them to appear and such. Anyway, I'm was soooooo looking forward to this and it's finally come.

Yiipee!

* Rick stops and is slightly embarrassed
<Sondow> also what
<Sondow> since when was S&K an expansion pack to s3
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Offline sonicam

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Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2007, 09:39:00 AM »
Yea, only V3 Navis. Yea, it's a problem for the ghost Navis, but just have to deal with it. :/ When you want to TA a boss and find it, just use LockEnemy SubChip, Save the game and then fight to your hearts content.

For the Times Division, you are fighting the V3 Navis.
For the Extra Division, you are fighting the Navis in the Secret Net's Time Trials, where you have to use your Extra Folder.
Chaos Emeralds: Yellow, Red, Green, Blue and Purple.
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Offline Shadow Jacky

Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2007, 01:48:06 PM »
guess I can bring this up then.

magnum, what do you say about the use of cyberspace doors in MMZ3?  To me it would make it incredibly easy to do missions since its really hard to die when in that state and maybe get faster times.  To me I think it should be disallowed since its kinda like using elves.

About MMZ4, should we allow the use of changing weather?  That also can make stages and bosses easier except it has a drawback since you wont be able to get an S (at least I dont think), and also voids your chance of getting an EX skill (then again people would be using new game+ anyway for stats)

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Completed Runs:
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Offline Rick_242

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Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2007, 08:04:33 PM »
Might as well make a guide on where to find the V3 navis then.

* Rick starts to work on said guide
<Sondow> also what
<Sondow> since when was S&K an expansion pack to s3
<Sondow> wiki LIES

Offline magnum12

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Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2007, 11:16:26 PM »
-MMZ3: I completely forgot about cyberspace. It was a feature I basically ignored except to fight Phantom for the ultimate foot chip. I'm also against using it.
-MMZ4: Agreed.
-Edit: Rules are now updated, complete with explanations for new players.
-Edit 2: MMBN 6 is up for competition. Great work guys. All we need to do now is put up the rankings for BN2 (preferably the person who put in the levels since I don't know exactly what step the chart's development is at right now), then we can do the final steps.
1. The final inspections. (The double check to see if all the rankings are set up correctly along with an agreed weight in terms of penalty for incomplete entries.)
2. Establishment of the forum design.
3. Establishment of the chat room.
4. Plans for additional content.
5. The site skin. I like the Mega Man evolution idea SJ came up with. We could have a time line with 1987 (infamous bad box art)-->1989 (traditional Mega Man sprite)-->1994 (X sprite)-->1996 (MML model)--> 2000 (MMBN sprite)--> 2002 (Zero, with Mega Man saying this is his series with Zero's retort "not anymore"--> 2007 (Model A).
-Once all that's finished, it will finally be time for the site's grand opening (good time for a party). Then its time to start advertising to the other Mega Man fan sites for new members.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2007, 11:48:20 PM by magnum12 »
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Offline Shadow Jacky

Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2007, 01:31:31 AM »
hope we can get new members that are actually willing to put in the effort like TSC is of today.

I'm all up for making progress, but I'm kinda clueless on what I can do :/
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Offline magnum12

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Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2007, 01:58:32 AM »
-We'll need Rolken and SM's help with 2 and 3 along with instructions on how to implement 4. If you can, you can help with item 1. I've been thinking of ideas for a web comic titled "Mega Man 45: the search for Mega Man 9" but I basically need a funny artist who can come up with twisted jokes. The comic is basically a twisted parody of the extensive MM sequel factory along with commentary about how a bunch of games will be made before we actually get MM9 (to finish the story of what happens between MM and MMX) or even more unlikely, actually get a game with Proto Man as a main character. The comic will feature obsurd robot masters along with the other parodies.
-Speaking of comics, I've got a great idea for a opening ceremony present to give to our main branch. Its basically a comic style parody of Sonic 06's last story as narrated by a twisted talking rabbit news anchor with its mouth stiched shut. Anyway, here's the comments in the comic.
-(panel of TV news room with news anchor) It's 6 o'clock and time for the news. This just in. Former gaming celebraty Sonic the Hedgehog has been murdered (panel of Sonic getting pwned by Mephiles). The incident ocured during the filming of his low rated game Sonic the Hedgehog in which he was attacked by wild tribesmen. Though he was once mega popular, no one cares enough to look for him. Due to the hassle investigation provides, police have simply deemed it a homicide.
Note: A giant cookie to whoever figures out which game I got the inspiration from for this twisted piece of dialogue.
Ever know what its like to get pwned by a book? Sonic certainly does.

Offline Rick_242

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Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2007, 07:02:37 PM »
Need some clarification for BN 5. In the rules it state that for TAing you need to fight the highest version of the navi that can be fought multiple times. My question is if it means Beta Navis or Omega Navis. I'm pretty sure it means means the Beta but, I just want to be sure in case I make a mistake.

Also, for some reason I keep thinking of Rayman Rabid Rabbits for the rabbit. The rest is at the tip of my tounge.
<Sondow> also what
<Sondow> since when was S&K an expansion pack to s3
<Sondow> wiki LIES

Offline sonicam

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Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2007, 11:13:24 PM »
I'm not very familiar with BN5, but what ever Navi is strongest AND you are able to fight multiple times. If Omega Navis in BN5 are the same as the Omega Navis in BN3 (you only fight them once to obtain their V4 chips), then no.
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Offline Rick_242

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Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2007, 11:45:18 PM »
Hmm.... I see. Also, this place needs more forums as it feels... dead. :/

<Sondow> also what
<Sondow> since when was S&K an expansion pack to s3
<Sondow> wiki LIES

Offline magnum12

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Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2007, 01:37:36 AM »
Hmm.... I see. Also, this place needs more forums as it feels... dead. :/


Indeed. That's one of our first priorities (we'll need Rolk's help for this). MMBN2 is now availible for competition. Its now time for the final touches. Woot!
-I'm a bit bummed about a bit of rotten luck last week. My PS2 broke down just before TMMC started. I was looking foward to displaying my MMX8 times but that will have to wait along with my plans of obtaining Makai Kingdom but that's another story entirely.
-In other news, my campus was the target of another school shooting threat this afternoon (the perpetrator of the threat was detained within 30 minutes of the discovery of the threat). A rather creepy situation indeed.
Ever know what its like to get pwned by a book? Sonic certainly does.

Offline Shadow Jacky

Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2007, 12:04:08 PM »
:o

you dont go to virginia tech do you?  thats gotta suck, remind me of all of the bomb or weapon threats my high school used to get early on.

well, one thing me and sonicam was talking about one day in chat was megaman challenges like the emerald challenges, but these would include the classic megaman games and MMX1-3...possibly the other gameboy megamans as well since you'll be using roms to do them.
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Completed Runs:
Sonic Heroes: Team Sonic: SS
Rocket Knight Adventures: Easy (US): SS

In the Future:
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Offline magnum12

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Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2007, 12:44:17 PM »
-The campus I'm at is CSUCI (in southern California).
-Speaking of the earlier games, I need to get to making that guide for the MMX weaknesses and check the classic guide to see if it has the GB games covered.
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Offline Shadow Jacky

Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2007, 02:58:14 PM »
also for those who dont know, someone at SDA (Frezy Man to be exact) did an excellent MMX2 100% speed run.  which is good because he shows some of the weaknesses to most of the sub bosses as he defeats them so quickly (I say some instead of all because he completely skips one). 
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Completed Runs:
Sonic Heroes: Team Sonic: SS
Rocket Knight Adventures: Easy (US): SS

In the Future:
Aero The Acrobat (Genesis) | More...

Offline Rolken

Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2007, 03:01:34 PM »
Hmm.... I see. Also, this place needs more forums as it feels... dead. :/
Indeed. That's one of our first priorities (we'll need Rolk's help for this).
I just need to know what you want.
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Offline magnum12

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Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2007, 03:16:03 PM »
-Here's the basic design I came up with (other admins, feel free to add your comments). Most of this is derived from the TSC forum structure.
 Forum Page---Forum rules
Maverick Hunters’ HQ
Information Kiosk
-Discuss the latest site news and updates here.
Beef
-Beef, it’s what’s for dinner. Also for complaints about problems with the site.
Welcoming Center
-Are you new? Introduce yourself here.

Competition Central
-Discuss things related to competition here.
Dr. Vile's Cell of Accusations
-Think someone’s lying/cheating, report here.
Dr. Light's Lounge
-Anything related to Mega Man. Moderators: staff

The Flutter
-One of the off-topic forums. This one is for fun stuff.
Net Navi's Corner
-The other off-topic forum. This one is for serious stuff.

Forum Rules:
1.Do not flame another member.
2.Do not troll.
3.No links to any sites or images containing or depicting hate speech, narcotics, hacks, porn, or other seedy things. Your avatar, signature, or any posted picture may not have these things either.
4.Please no double posting. If there is something you forgot/ wanted to add, please use the edit function.
5.Thread necromancy is bad. Do not bump topics that are over 30 days old unless you have something VERY important to contribute to the discussion.
6.Do not advertise.
7.Do not spam.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2007, 05:14:45 PM by magnum12 »
Ever know what its like to get pwned by a book? Sonic certainly does.

Offline Shadow Jacky

Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2007, 04:47:52 PM »
would the GB megaman games go under their own forum, or one of the existing ones since they aren't that far off.

Also the challenges, but I think those can wait until this place is more established.  Also I like Maverick Hunters HQ...but thats just me.  Other than those things, it sounds ok to me.
my name has nothing to do with Shadow The Hedgehog

Completed Runs:
Sonic Heroes: Team Sonic: SS
Rocket Knight Adventures: Easy (US): SS

In the Future:
Aero The Acrobat (Genesis) | More...

Offline sonicam

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Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2007, 05:04:24 PM »
Yea, I think we should condense it as I doubt that a lot of those forums are going to have much activiting, namily Legends. How about just a General MegaMan forum (Dr. Light's Lounge or something, or The Flutter [if you've played the Legends games]), Leaderboard Disputes is fine (or perhaps Dr. Wily's Chamber of Accusations or something fancy like that), Competition Central is fine. Everything else is cool.

EDIT: Also, add MegaMan Challenges anyway just so it's there and when we finally do decide on something, we can just jump into it. (Rock Challenges, or something is a feasible name without sounding too gimmicky)
« Last Edit: April 20, 2007, 05:11:21 PM by sonicam »
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Offline magnum12

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Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2007, 05:18:53 PM »
Changes implemented. Changed the Dr. Wily section to Dr. Vile to put in a MMZ reference. Dr. Vile was the original name in Japan but got changed to Weil for some weird reason. The changes affected ZX as well, with model W instead of model V (even though the first form still shoots V shaped shots).
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Offline Rick_242

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Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2007, 07:19:59 PM »
Sweet :O

Do you guys have any general idea when these updates will be added? Err.... also, my MMBN 3 Boss and chip location FAQ should be done by the end of Sunday (S. CA time of course <_<).
<Sondow> also what
<Sondow> since when was S&K an expansion pack to s3
<Sondow> wiki LIES

Offline Shadow Jacky

Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2007, 01:07:59 PM »
yeah thats more like it for the S ranks for some missions in Zero 3.  In the Old Residential though (Mantisk's stage), when I was looking what to do for S ranks (which I still couldn't find so thats why I was asking around...mainly you and sonicam :p) I read that you had to burn down the plants in that stage...I was mostly burning everything up and was spending a lot of time doing so while killing.  This sucks if I did that all for nothing, because I would hate it to redo that stage over :/
my name has nothing to do with Shadow The Hedgehog

Completed Runs:
Sonic Heroes: Team Sonic: SS
Rocket Knight Adventures: Easy (US): SS

In the Future:
Aero The Acrobat (Genesis) | More...

Offline magnum12

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Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2007, 02:06:25 PM »
Guides for MMZ2 and 4 S Ranks are up along with a elemental weakness chart for the BN series. One of my tertiary goals with the site since it is competition related is to create a complete repository of knowledge in relation to all things that affect Mega Man speed running and a lot of stuff that new fans to Mega Man could find quite useful as well.
Ever know what its like to get pwned by a book? Sonic certainly does.

Offline Rick_242

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Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2007, 11:46:48 PM »
MMBN 3 Navi Locations (only TA-able Navis) Guide submitted. Due to some an error I pressed back and pressed confirm again and due to this there are 2 of them one of which needs to be deleted also, why did -> ' <- turn into ->? <- when I copied and pasted from the guide I made a while ago?

My chip location guide should be up by the end of next week due to some setbacks. :/

EDIT: The extra guide has been deleted. No need to delete the other guide now.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2007, 10:43:19 AM by Rick_242 »
<Sondow> also what
<Sondow> since when was S&K an expansion pack to s3
<Sondow> wiki LIES

Offline Shadow Jacky

Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2007, 11:42:33 AM »
would glitches count?  or just standard and advanced methods of speedrunning.
my name has nothing to do with Shadow The Hedgehog

Completed Runs:
Sonic Heroes: Team Sonic: SS
Rocket Knight Adventures: Easy (US): SS

In the Future:
Aero The Acrobat (Genesis) | More...

Offline magnum12

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Re: Welcome to the MegaMan Center~
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2007, 01:01:53 PM »
Just standard and advanced methods of speed running. One of the general competition rules is that no glitches of any kind are allowed. I've got my reasons for this.
1. One of my early intentions in establishing TMMC in the conceptual stages was that it would be a competition of pure skill without glitches around to tarnish it.
2. In line with the trademark high challenge of Mega Man games, the competition here will be just as challenging as the games they represent. With glitches banned, no one will be able to take the easy way out.
3. Banning glitches will eliminate many problems before they become a serious threat, which is a critical aspect of the "sheathed sword" philosophy. Many of the major ruling debates at TSC were the result of some annoying glitch, such as Hot Shelter (Gamma), the TBG, and to a lesser extent Egg Wyvern. (One of the general rules was made to specifically prevent issues like that from ever becoming a major problem.)
Ever know what its like to get pwned by a book? Sonic certainly does.

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