Questions concerning the rules.


    Print

Author Topic: Questions concerning the rules.  (Read 7395 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Aitamen

  • TMMC Profile
  • win7 firefox
  • Posts: 1130
  • I am a follower of the immortal Dark Falz!
    • View Profile
Questions concerning the rules.
« on: June 07, 2009, 07:02:49 PM »
Not sure if anyone will read this, but I figure it's worth a shot.

I don't understand the banning of numerous normal abilities within a number of the games shown on this sub-site (Such as Dark Chips and Cyber Elves, specifically)

Admittedly, I know nothing of the Dark Chips, so I'll refrain from mentioning them, but I would like an answer as to why they're banned (I have the games/could get the roms, but it's annoying to know things  are banned)

Cyber Elves, on the other hand, are the primary way to "level" in the case of MMZ.  Progression of character is built to make the game less evil, but it would also add a lot of depth to the game itself.  

Lower Lifebar means Taking damage to save time is a no-no, which is why I haven't/can't post any times from MMZ4...  all my routes require max stats. 

EDIT: Not totally true, so I'll start competing a little on levels I don't need high-level tech for.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 11:02:55 PM by Aitamen »

Re: Questions concerning the rules.
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2009, 06:21:38 PM »
I think Dark Chips should continue to be banned. They are just extremely powerful and cheap attacks.

However, I agree with Aitamen about the Cyber Elves.

Offline Aitamen

  • TMMC Profile
  • win7 firefox
  • Posts: 1130
  • I am a follower of the immortal Dark Falz!
    • View Profile
Re: Questions concerning the rules.
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2009, 09:52:33 PM »
there is precedence for enabling Cyber Elves for competition.

Mostly, because of one of my ideas for SU-fixing (requiring a character to be max level to help out on score-precedence)

I was told, by more than one admin, that we "cannot ban a perfectly legit first-playthrough"

Thoughts?

Offline sonicam

  • TSC's Most Easily Irritated Member
  • Moderator
  • TMMC Profile
  • win7 firefox
  • Posts: 666
    • View Profile
Re: Questions concerning the rules.
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2009, 12:38:24 PM »
there is precedence for enabling Cyber Elves for competition.

Mostly, because of one of my ideas for SU-fixing (requiring a character to be max level to help out on score-precedence)

I was told, by more than one admin, that we "cannot ban a perfectly legit first-playthrough"

Thoughts?

What does that mean?

Not only magnum, but I also voted against the use of Cyber Elves. I figured that since we have Ultimate Mode up where all Elves are in effect without penalty; we should have a mode where Elves cannot be used for those that don't like them; for a more restricted speed run.
Chaos Emeralds: Yellow, Red, Green, Blue and Purple.
Keys: Light Blue.


Click here to level up my card!

Re: Questions concerning the rules.
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2009, 12:11:23 AM »
Not only magnum, but I also voted against the use of Cyber Elves. I figured that since we have Ultimate Mode up where all Elves are in effect without penalty; we should have a mode where Elves cannot be used for those that don't like them; for a more restricted speed run.

Well I just think Cyber Elves shouldn't be banned and Ultimate Mode should. Also I think that if you go over the amount of abilities you get from the Elf doesn't matter because if you go over you can not compete in the S Rank charts.

Offline Aitamen

  • TMMC Profile
  • win7 firefox
  • Posts: 1130
  • I am a follower of the immortal Dark Falz!
    • View Profile
Re: Questions concerning the rules.
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2009, 05:03:38 AM »
You have banned normal playthrough because you think elves remove challenge from the game...

seriously, in my mind, it's like requiring people in S2 to never spindash, because it makes the game too easy...  wtf

If you don't like them, you shouldn't be competing... challenges are a fully seperate category from speedruns, and manipulating what can and cannot be done does NOT show what humans are capable of making the game do, which has always been the goal of modern speedrunning.

I could see Ultimate being added into the charts, but at the moment, it's not there. 

Honestly, more than anything, I'm sick of people refusing to annihilate a game as fast as possible because they feel it's "cheap" or something of the sort.  We aren't here to test how much time you've put into a level, nor are we here to test who's more skillful, as it's not the kind of competition.  Rather, we're here to see how badly we can hurt this game.  How fast can we beat every section of it.  How low can it really go, in human hands.

If you're going to handi-cap every record, how are we supposed to define ourselves as the best competition website on the planet for our game, like TSC has?  Sure, maybe we could have the "best non-elf times" ever, but that's very different from challenge runs in other games, and it's also very different from speedrunning.

People are opposed to glitches in much the same fashion, in my eyes: They see it as an unfair advantage in a game.

I'm sorry, but the only unfair advantage they gain is that they understand that HOW they do it is of little or no consequence, because they realize that the goal of speedrunning isn't to play through a game, or enjoy the scenery, or the music, but rather, quite simply, to stop the clock as early as possible, by any means possible.

Offline sonicam

  • TSC's Most Easily Irritated Member
  • Moderator
  • TMMC Profile
  • win7 firefox
  • Posts: 666
    • View Profile
Re: Questions concerning the rules.
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2009, 07:51:50 AM »
You have banned normal playthrough because you think elves remove challenge from the game...

seriously, in my mind, it's like requiring people in S2 to never spindash, because it makes the game too easy...  wtf

If you don't like them, you shouldn't be competing... challenges are a fully seperate category from speedruns, and manipulating what can and cannot be done does NOT show what humans are capable of making the game do, which has always been the goal of modern speedrunning.

I could see Ultimate being added into the charts, but at the moment, it's not there. 

Honestly, more than anything, I'm sick of people refusing to annihilate a game as fast as possible because they feel it's "cheap" or something of the sort.  We aren't here to test how much time you've put into a level, nor are we here to test who's more skillful, as it's not the kind of competition.  Rather, we're here to see how badly we can hurt this game.  How fast can we beat every section of it.  How low can it really go, in human hands.

If you're going to handi-cap every record, how are we supposed to define ourselves as the best competition website on the planet for our game, like TSC has?  Sure, maybe we could have the "best non-elf times" ever, but that's very different from challenge runs in other games, and it's also very different from speedrunning.

People are opposed to glitches in much the same fashion, in my eyes: They see it as an unfair advantage in a game.

I'm sorry, but the only unfair advantage they gain is that they understand that HOW they do it is of little or no consequence, because they realize that the goal of speedrunning isn't to play through a game, or enjoy the scenery, or the music, but rather, quite simply, to stop the clock as early as possible, by any means possible.

First off, calm down, don't take the fact that this site isn't totally geared to your standards as a personal insult. This subsite is still in the works and hasn't been updated much due to lack of interest. The charts that I made were Zero 1 and 2. Ultimate Mode is up on 1, I cannot remember if Ultimate Mode is in Zero 2 or not.

Last time I checked, speedrunning requires a lot of patience, dedication and skill. You must understand techniques, glitches and the physics of the game in order to beat the clock so that statement is false.

I do realize the redundancy of restricting Elves when there is an S-Rank category.

When SJ and magnum reads this, I'd like to hear their opinion.
Chaos Emeralds: Yellow, Red, Green, Blue and Purple.
Keys: Light Blue.


Click here to level up my card!

Offline Aitamen

  • TMMC Profile
  • win7 firefox
  • Posts: 1130
  • I am a follower of the immortal Dark Falz!
    • View Profile
Re: Questions concerning the rules.
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2009, 07:45:05 AM »
Last time I checked, speedrunning requires a lot of patience, dedication and skill. You must understand techniques, glitches and the physics of the game in order to beat the clock so that statement is false.

you don't need to understand the physics is you're using someone else's route...

also, my statement was against the fact that I was told that someone restricted elves to stop the bugs that are inherent with them.

Offline magnum12

  • Awesome Overlord of TMMC
  • Moderator
  • TMMC Profile
  • winvista msie9
  • Posts: 1184
    • View Profile
Re: Questions concerning the rules.
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2009, 06:35:26 PM »
If I remember correctly, the issue was discussed a very long time ago. Now that I think of it, the flat out cyber elf ban seems kind of redundant with the S rank division running around. One of my original ideas regarding the rule was to allow nurse and animal elves as I thought those weren't so bad compared to the potential effects of the hacker elves.

For Zero 3, I'm thinking that satelite elves should be allowed. None of those seem to be harmful to competition. Where this issue gets really complicated is in MMZ4 and the master elf system. IIRC, the major concern with the master elf system (and to lesser extent the elf system in general) was with being able to enforce any rulings on it. If you set a level cap on it, how are you going to prove that a run was done with that cap or with +1 level.

During initial rules development, one of the common strategies with rules development was the idea of the "sheathed sword". What this means is that the best approach is to find potential problems early and quickly/quietly eliminate them before they get a chance to grow. Its better to error on the side of caution. Its much easier to give a little more slack on something that is discovered to not be a threat than it is to rein it in after it was identified too late. Those who know my academic background should know that the "sheathed sword" approach is a must when attempting to combat disease (especially with cancer). Its also a wonderful approach to game design and I would not be surprised if a lot of top game developers use it in the creation of their games.
Ever know what its like to get pwned by a book? Sonic certainly does.

Offline Aitamen

  • TMMC Profile
  • win7 firefox
  • Posts: 1130
  • I am a follower of the immortal Dark Falz!
    • View Profile
Re: Questions concerning the rules.
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2012, 12:09:08 PM »
Also, I'm curious as to why Black Zero/Ultimate X are banned, (at least in X5 where they can be obtained through normal play, I'm not sure about the rest)could someone give me a heads up?

What's the grounds for banning in TMMC, since it's obviously not something to do with competition value or timer resets?

Offline Xr0s-up

Re: Questions concerning the rules.
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2013, 12:06:04 AM »
Are you serious!!
No dark chips!
There are more cheaper things than dark chips my friend. They're terrible as well due to their dark side effects.
Playing Sonic for fun
Playing MMBN for victory

    Print
 

Hits: 510 | Hits This Month: 11 | DB Calls: 8 | Mem Usage: 6.57 MB | Time: 0.14s | Printable

The Sonic Center v3.9
Copyright 2003-2011 by The Sonic Center Team.