Sonic 3&K Questions


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Sonic 3&K Questions
« on: September 14, 2013, 08:05:03 AM »
In this thread I would just like to post any questions I might have regarding ring totals in S3K and maybe glitches and other stuff as well. I'm posting it here instead of Sonic General, if that's all right, because this seems like the better place to discuss a lot of the more obscure details of a particular game. I hope you all won't mind me asking and will be able to help me out, thanks.

Here's my first question: According to Sonic Zone 0, in ICZ2, there are 479 regular rings + 20 monitor rings = 499 total rings eligible. In my practice run of this act, I did collect 479 rings - but that amount includes the 20 monitor rings. I'm pretty sure I didn't miss 20 rings somewhere, so could it be that SZZ's data is inaccurate? Like maybe they're counting the 20 monitor rings twice? Or is the 479 perhaps including the 17 regular rings which were obtainable only in act 1, but are technically part of act 2? In that case, there's only 462 regular rings obtainable in act 2, + 20 monitor rings = 482, which means I only would have missed 3, which is a lot more feasible than missing 20.

Which brings me to my next question: Even if I did miss 3 rings in ICZ2, it's hard to see where, which makes me wonder if there's not some rings hidden inside a wall somewhere. I know that's the case for SOZ1, there's 3 rings inside a wall and AFAIK only 1 of them can be gotten and only by using the lightning shield. Are there any other levels where this happens? I'm also apparently missing 3 in SOZ2 and I'm not sure why, 361/364, so if there are a few regular rings hidden in the walls in these levels that would be a relief.

TL;DR: I seem to be missing at least 3 rings in ICZ2 and SOZ2 and I don't know where, I think they may be stuck in a random wall somewhere, can anyone verify or any other suggestions? I should mention this is all part of my research for a possible full game TAS RA as Knuckles. I'm choosing not to include rings gained from super rings in this RA, so totals will consist solely of regular rings + monitor rings. Thanks again

Offline flying fox

Re: Sonic 3&K Questions
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2013, 08:51:08 AM »
This video should help you with Ice Cap 2, it'll show you where the missing 3 rings are in the wall. Hope that helps.

Offline TimpZ

Re: Sonic 3&K Questions
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2013, 10:12:34 AM »
You can use SonED2 or SonLVL with a split disassembly to see how many loose rings there are in a level and exactly where they are, even if they're inside a wall. You can also use it to check for a lot of other things such as solidities, objects other than rings, path 0/1 etc.

Re: Sonic 3&K Questions
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2013, 04:37:17 AM »
Thanks, flying fox that was exactly what I needed to know. I was able to get the ICZ2 rings by using a precise superglide instead of the slope glitch. I even managed to locate and collect the 3 rings I missed in SOZ2 as well, just by chance as I was looking around the map earlier. Do you happen to know if there's any way to obtain all 3 wall rings in SOZ1, as well?

TimpZ I didn't know that about those programs, so far as I said I've just been relying on the maps and information at Sonic Zone Zero. According to those sources I should have all of the rings accounted for at this point, after today, however I will look into using them to help verify the totals listed for each level.

Offline flying fox

Re: Sonic 3&K Questions
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2013, 08:09:52 AM »
Thanks, flying fox that was exactly what I needed to know. I was able to get the ICZ2 rings by using a precise superglide instead of the slope glitch. I even managed to locate and collect the 3 rings I missed in SOZ2 as well, just by chance as I was looking around the map earlier. Do you happen to know if there's any way to obtain all 3 wall rings in SOZ1, as well?

No problem. I don't know anything about SOZ1 as I haven't looked in to it yet. Actually the only rings I know of in the Sonic & Knuckles part of the game, which are embedded in the floors are SO2 and DE1 which I accidentally found, by messing around with an electric shield.

Re: Sonic 3&K Questions
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2014, 02:21:09 PM »
Hello TSC, it's been a while. Turns out I haven't had that many more questions to ask, or I was able to solve them on my own without posting here. For exapmle SOZ1, which I posted about before, I found a way to get the 3 rings in the wall by falling from a sufficient height. It's probably impossible to get more than 1 of them in regular (unassisted) play however, unless there's some way of triggering the slope glitch in this level - but I don't believe there is.

Still, thanks again to eveyrone as this site has been a great help especially some of the RA videos posted in the random .giz topic. As of right now, I'm half way through my full game ring run TAS and the only rings I shouldn't be able to get are from mutually exclusive sign post monitors, and all the ones in Sonic's starting and boss areas in LRZ1 and 2, respectively. Which, I think it's widely accepted that it's impossible to get those as Knuckles, so I don't think there's much I can do about that.

The only remaining question I have should be have to do with those 3 capsules in Flying Battery 1. When you step on them, 6 rings come out, 3 in either direction. Even in a TAS setting I've found it again, basically impossible to get all 18 of them. So I'm just wondering how you guys go about getting them, if they're included in ring totals for that act, and how do you know a given amount is maxed if it doesn't include all 18 of them?

Also I'm just curious to see if they're included at all and what the basis or explanation is for that decision, since they don't really behave like normal individual rings in the rest of the game. I'm not sure if I should include them or not, for that reason. Thanks.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 02:55:24 PM by TheYogWog »

Offline Proxima

Re: Sonic 3&K Questions
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2014, 06:44:30 PM »
They're included. And it's possible to get 17 of them (as the current record of 414 indicates) but no-one has got 18 yet (or, if they have, they haven't done a full 415 run). I remember doing some testing, trying to find a reliable method of getting 17. I didn't succeed, though I did confirm that 17 is possible, and I found a pretty good way of getting the first six. You need to play as Sonic and Tails. Stand on the far right wall, and nudge left, so that Tails takes a hit from the moving platform; then run and hit the capsule, and the stunned Tails catches the rings that fly to the right.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 06:55:55 PM by Proxima »

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