Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds


Poll

How many chaos emeralds are there?

5 (G Sonic Blast)
1 (2.9%)
6 (1, Chaos, TT, Drift, Tails's Adv, Laby, SPA)
1 (2.9%)
7 (2, 3, D, R, SADX, SA2B, Advances, etc. etc.)
29 (85.3%)
8 (Fighters)
0 (0%)
16 (Spinball)
3 (8.8%)

Total Members Voted: 34

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Offline MK

Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« on: March 21, 2008, 10:02:04 PM »
WE MUST SOLVE THIS MYSTERY.
Emeralds:

Offline Taillow

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Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2008, 10:14:57 PM »
THERE ARE THOUSANDS
Hi

Offline Waxwings

Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2008, 10:16:05 PM »
toss in the number that there are in Archie comics.

Offline MK

Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2008, 10:17:19 PM »
toss in the number that there are in Archie comics.

Archie has never, does not, and never will count, ever. Ever.
Emeralds:

Offline Staf

Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2008, 10:17:42 PM »
toss in the number that there are in Archie comics.
It's over 9000!

Or so.

Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2008, 11:10:32 PM »
AS MANY AS YOU WANT THERE TO BE

[EDIT] YOU FORGOT FLEETWAY

There were two sets of 6 Emeralds (which were actually originally one set , they were later recombined) and one Grey Emerald to control all of them. Though that aspect was forgotten later when they realised "oh fuck, the Master Emerald".
« Last Edit: March 21, 2008, 11:17:05 PM by Crowbar »

Offline P.P.A.

Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2008, 05:17:57 AM »
Quote from: JP Sonic 1 manual
South Island is a treasure of jewels and ruins, including the "Chaos Emeralds" that sleep buried somewhere within the island.
Quote from: JP Sonic 2 manual
The legend of West Side Island, the Island of Illusion, tells that many years ago, a people here based the development of their civilization on a collection of strange stones, and employed their greatest philosophers to theorize on the true power of these stones. In order to gain these powers, some attempted to channel the energy of the stones for their own evil intents. These attempts, however, came to naught. Since, the legends tell that the stones have been sealed by the gods somewhere on this island.
BUT YOU JUST SAID THEY WERE ON SOUTH ISLAND
Quote from: JP Sonic 3 manual
http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_3_JP_Manual
WAIT WTF I THOUGHT SONIC HAD THE EMERALDS FROM COLLECTING THEM IN SONIC 2 WHAT SIGNAL DOES TAILS RECEIVE AND WHAT DID KNUCKLES GUARD ALL THE TIME
Quote from: JP Tails Adventures manual
Floating along the spring-like South Pacific, the tiny island not found on any map, Cocoa Island... the beautiful island resting atop coral reefs, said to be home to sleeping Chaos Emeralds since ancient times.
BUT YOU SAID THEY WERE ON SOUTH ISLAND ON WEST SIDE ISLAND ON ANGEL ISLAND oh just forget it
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 05:44:59 AM by P.P.A. »
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Offline Taillow

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Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2008, 05:43:13 AM »
Quote from: JP Sonic 1 manual
South Island is a treasure of jewels and ruins, including the "Chaos Emeralds" that sleep buried somewhere within the island.
Quote from: JP Sonic 2 manual
The legend of West Side Island, the Island of Illusion, tells that many years ago, a people here based the development of their civilization on a collection of strange stones, and employed their greatest philosophers to theorize on the true power of these stones. In order to gain these powers, some attempted to channel the energy of the stones for their own evil intents. These attempts, however, came to naught. Since, the legends tell that the stones have been sealed by the gods somewhere on this island.
BUT YOU JUST SAID THEY WERE ON SOUTH ISLAND
Quote from: JP Sonic 3 manual
http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_3_JP_Manual
WAIT WTF I THOUGHT SONIC HAD THE EMERALDS FROM COLLECTING THEN IN SONIC 2 WHAT SIGNAL DOES TAILS RECEIVE AND WHAT DID KNUCKLES GUARD ALL THE TIME
Quote from: JP Tails Adventures manual
Floating along the spring-like South Pacific, the tiny island not found on any map, Cocoa Island... the beautiful island resting atop coral reefs, said to be home to sleeping Chaos Emeralds since ancient times.
BUT YOU SAID THEY WERE ON SOUTH ISLAND ON WEST SIDE ISLAND ON ANGEL ISLAND oh just forget it
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Offline P.P.A.

Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2008, 05:45:31 AM »
Oh I just noticed I typo'd "them" to "then".
* P.P.A. fixes.
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Offline JBertolli

Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2008, 10:17:04 AM »
Heroes has seven, so there are seven.

Offline EngiNerd

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Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2008, 01:35:45 PM »
<_<

Too many to count.
My theory is, there's multiple sets of them.  All it takes for Sonic is a complete set of them.  When he's done with them, the old ones become inactive and now it's time to find a new set.  Primary example: Sonic 3.  He had a set of emeralds with him to get to Angel Island.  Knuckles stole them.  Yet they somehow inexplicably wound up in Special Stages.  Solution?  The ones in the Special Stages are a new set.  Similarly for Shadow: how many of those levels have emeralds?  But yeah.
And yes, I have theories about everything in that universe, primarily because (someday) I will make a fangame about it, and I need my backstory.
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Offline Paused

Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2008, 09:10:01 PM »
I thought...

1 set of (Current day design) Emeralds pre Chaos rampage in Tikals time.

Chaos absorbs negative power in said rampage, leaves behind one set of gray emeralds (just like in the Super Sonic story in adventure.)  Tikal does her poetry thing, Master absorbs Chaos, and in so doing causes the negative power of the emeralds to 'Chaos Control' in to the special stages.

So after Chaos has his tantrum two sets of 7.  Negative energy set in the special stages, positive energy set at the alter on Angel Island.  Make up a reason for them both to regain their colour and hexagon shape as seen in games 1 2 and 3.

'Positive' emeralds sit on Angel island for a milenia or so.    The ancestors of Knux get somewhat attatched to their gems.   

The negative set travels through the special stages and go on lots of adventures, they learn to live, to love, and how to destroy most people who find them, including the people on Westside Island, South Island, the Gizoids creators, a bunch of birds that loved Skateboarding so much that they decided to make a magic carpet(Riders), and the like.

Eventually the negative set is found by a certain blue hedgehog whilst rolling about South Island.  And for one reason or another the 'Chaos Control' back to the special stage after changing the colour of a few Sunflowers.  Destroy the world, give Hedgehogs a hair dye, flower arranging, those emeralds can do it all.

Sonic gets all the negative emeralds again on Westside...  but turns Super.  This bit I admit is probs fanwanking, but Sonic turning Super with the Negative Emeralds effects the Positive ones.  The Emeralds Knux has, as stated by some Japanesse manual (3? or was it S+K?)explode.  I guess the energy was absorbed by the Master.  Eggman lands and says a wizard... I mean Sonic did it.

Sonic3 happens.  Knux does the most powerful move ever shown in a Sonic game and beats up a Super form.  He steals what he believes to be his set of Emeralds.  I presume the Negative set looks identical to the Positive set.

From there more fan wanking... Knux after stealing the Emeralds immediately witnesses something similar to the Sonic1 good ending.  The emeralds end up in the special stage again.

Sonic gets em back, cue Sonic3+K.  Sonic reunites the Positive, Negative and Master Emeralds.  This forces Sonics set to become the Modern day shape emeralds, but still grayed out just like, again, in Adventure.  More special stages release the positive emerald energy which was still in the master emerald from the ending of Sonic2, into the now standard Chaos, (but at the time Super) Emeralds.

1 set of Emeralds again.


Course there is alot of fan wanking to be done to clear little things up.  Like the 6 emeralds in the first game thing.  Geralds Journal in 'Battle' claims he found an emerald somewhere.  One could say taht with that emerald he made the deus Ex Machina from Adventure2 and Shadow, and the emerald was some how reunited with the others during the chaos control at the end of Sonic1.  Or that Rings were created when Chaos had his rant, and the emeralds split and scattered all over, and thats why the two objects are connect so often.



Oh and form 'legends' saying the emeralds were hidden on South and Westside island...  We know they were not.  Emeralds were not hidden there...  Gates to the Special stages were.


...Lol at how bord I must be to type all that on this subject.  I am going outside now.
     

   

Offline CosmicFalcon

Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2008, 07:53:33 AM »
Paused you made a great point in the Blaze topic to do with Emerald coexistance: Time travel.

Seeing as Chaos Control can apparently be used to create a gateway through time (if used by two who are able to use the power, apparently), there's no end to the possibilities of time travel that could have happened, and if the user takes their emeralds with them... well... you get issues.

Basically, I think the fundamental point of trying to make a Sonic 'canon' is that you'd have to cut corners and ignore some things that your chosen 'canon games' would say is fact.

Solution? Live with it.
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Offline EngiNerd

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Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2008, 01:26:40 PM »
Don't know why I'm doing this....

I thought...

1 set of (Current day design) Emeralds pre Chaos rampage in Tikals time.

Chaos absorbs negative power in said rampage, leaves behind one set of gray emeralds (just like in the Super Sonic story in adventure.)  Tikal does her poetry thing, Master absorbs Chaos, and in so doing causes the negative power of the emeralds to 'Chaos Control' in to the special stages.

*Not a bad idea, actually.

So after Chaos has his tantrum two sets of 7.  Negative energy set in the special stages, positive energy set at the alter on Angel Island.  Make up a reason for them both to regain their colour and hexagon shape as seen in games 1 2 and 3.

*Also interesting.  Never thought of the shape connection.  I'm intrigued as to what you would say about S3D though.

'Positive' emeralds sit on Angel island for a milenia or so.    The ancestors of Knux get somewhat attatched to their gems.   

The negative set travels through the special stages and go on lots of adventures, they learn to live, to love, and how to destroy most people who find them, including the people on Westside Island, South Island, the Gizoids creators, a bunch of birds that loved Skateboarding so much that they decided to make a magic carpet(Riders), and the like.

*SPOILER
...
The Babylon Rogues were confirmed in Zero Gravity to actually be aliens.  Don't know what this would change.  But, apparently, quite a few aliens *coughblackcougharmscough* already know about the emeralds.

Eventually the negative set is found by a certain blue hedgehog whilst rolling about South Island.  And for one reason or another the 'Chaos Control' back to the special stage after changing the colour of a few Sunflowers.  Destroy the world, give Hedgehogs a hair dye, flower arranging, those emeralds can do it all.

*Amused.  Very amused.  Interesting the connection with the color though ... you may hear more from me about this soon.

Sonic gets all the negative emeralds again on Westside...  but turns Super.  This bit I admit is probs fanwanking, but Sonic turning Super with the Negative Emeralds effects the Positive ones.  The Emeralds Knux has, as stated by some Japanesse manual (3? or was it S+K?)explode.  I guess the energy was absorbed by the Master.  Eggman lands and says a wizard... I mean Sonic did it.

Sonic3 happens.  Knux does the most powerful move ever shown in a Sonic game and beats up a Super form.  He steals what he believes to be his set of Emeralds.  I presume the Negative set looks identical to the Positive set.

*And now Eggman knows how to de-super Sonic as well.  Interesting.

From there more fan wanking... Knux after stealing the Emeralds immediately witnesses something similar to the Sonic1 good ending.  The emeralds end up in the special stage again.

Sonic gets em back, cue Sonic3+K.  Sonic reunites the Positive, Negative and Master Emeralds.  This forces Sonics set to become the Modern day shape emeralds, but still grayed out just like, again, in Adventure.  More special stages release the positive emerald energy which was still in the master emerald from the ending of Sonic2, into the now standard Chaos, (but at the time Super) Emeralds.

1 set of Emeralds again.

*I wondered how you would do that....

Course there is alot of fan wanking to be done to clear little things up.  Like the 6 emeralds in the first game thing.  Geralds Journal in 'Battle' claims he found an emerald somewhere.  One could say taht with that emerald he made the deus Ex Machina from Adventure2 and Shadow, and the emerald was some how reunited with the others during the chaos control at the end of Sonic1.  Or that Rings were created when Chaos had his rant, and the emeralds split and scattered all over, and thats why the two objects are connect so often.

*I remember reading some stupid webcomic that explained the seventh Chaos emerald as being stuck in Tails' rear end the entire time....  Gerald saw some pretty interesting stuff in his studies, remember, like how he designed Shadow off the mural in Hidden Palace.  Interesting theory on the rings.  The same could be argued for pretty much any of the star items in the games (springs, star posts, switches, the list goes on).

Oh and form 'legends' saying the emeralds were hidden on South and Westside island...  We know they were not.  Emeralds were not hidden there...  Gates to the Special stages were.


...Lol at how bord I must be to type all that on this subject.  I am going outside now.
     

   
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Offline MK

Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2008, 12:23:44 AM »
What's Fleetway?
Emeralds:

Offline Magnezone

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Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2008, 02:53:57 AM »
Fleetway is the other Sonic comic. I think the Archie one is still around, but the Fleetway one is toast.

Offline P.P.A.

Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2008, 04:53:27 AM »
The company that made the British Sonic the Comic series. Way better than Archie, btw.
EDIT: Oh what, there was another page of the thread where SkyLights already answered this. :(
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Offline P.P.A.

Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2008, 11:33:08 AM »
...
I think today's Chaos Emeralds are the Super Emeralds. Why? Well, for once at the beginning of Sonic 3 the Chaos Emeralds looked like they did before, but when they became Super Emeralds, they got the shape they kept until this day.
And why does Sonic not go Hyper but Super instead you ask? Well, in S3K Sonic /Tails/Knuckles could use the Super Emeralds alone and they were in touch with the Master Emerald shortly before. Now look at the transformation circumstances:
- Sonic R, Riders, Riders ZG: Racing games with SS only being an unlockable character, so irrelevant.
- Sonic Adventure 1: Chaos already used a half of the Emeralds' powers, so Sonic could only use the remaining half. Also no Master Emerald.
- Sonic Adventure 2: The Master Emerald was used when Sonic and Shadow transformed. However since they had to split the power between them they couldn't both go Hyper.
- Sonic Heroes: Never got that far, but from what I read there's no Master Emerald and Metal Sonic absorbs their powers too?
- Shadow the Hedgehog: Black Doom uses their power to transform into Devil Doom, so Shadow only has the other half left and can't go Hyper. Also no Master Emerald.
- Sonic The Hedgehog: No Master Emerald, but Super Sonic still has enough power to transform both Shadow and Silver. BUT IT NEVER HAPPENED SO THAT'S ALL IRRELEVANT
- Sonic Advance 1+2, Rush: No Master Emerald in sight.
- Sonic Advance 3: At the M.E. shrine, but Gmerl uses their powers as well, so once again only enough power left for Sonic's Super form.


...EVEN THOUGH I DON'T CARE BECAUSE I THINK SUPER SONIC IS RETARDED AND SHOULD NOT EXIST
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Offline EngiNerd

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Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2008, 07:20:23 PM »
Potential spoilers, but if you've come this far into the topic, "THAT ALONE IS INSUFFICIENT."

Dude, P.P.A., you're trying too hard.  That IS Hyper Sonic.  He just changed colors.
Think of it this way: out of the entire Genesis series, only Hyper Sonic could breathe underwater; reason has it the same occurs for outer space (provided you played S3&K properly <_<).  Thus, SA2, ShTH, 2006, and (IIRC) the entire Advance/Rush series.  SH, the fight isn't technically in space but it is at a very high altitude.  There's also the lightning bolt ability in SA, and he glides across the water's surface, I don't know what you want to do with that.

And, some more minor things:
At the end of SH, Metal does NOT absorb any power from the emeralds; he transforms before there's any indication that all of the emeralds have been collected.  However, when Sonic transforms, Tails and Knuckles may not transform themselves, but they are MUCH stronger (note Knuckles destroying the battleships with one punch) and they are granted flight and shield properties.
Note that the final battle in Rush includes both Super Sonic and (name is iffy) Burning Blaze.  But, they did have 14 emeralds by then.

And you think Super Sonic shouldn't exist?  O.o
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Offline Alondite

Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2008, 03:43:27 AM »
toss in the number that there are in Archie comics.

Archie has never, does not, and never will count, ever. Ever.

Hey some of their comics were actually good. Mecha Madness and the Death Egg Sage come to mind...

Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2008, 07:27:34 AM »
The name Burning Blaze is official (I believe it's mentioned in SRA).

Also you can be just plain Super Sonic in S3&K if you only get 7 emeralds and he has no breathing problems.

Offline EngiNerd

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Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2008, 08:10:51 AM »
True.  Though who actually plays it that way?  <_<
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Offline P.P.A.

Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2008, 10:12:12 AM »
I never bothered to collect all Emeralds in S3K or S2. S2's special stages are not really but but also not very motivating and S3K's make me dizzy. That spherical effect is the worst thing ever.
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Offline Bilan

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Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2008, 10:29:13 AM »




But they have fantastic music!
Did you not think I had a mind?

Offline P.P.A.

Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2008, 10:41:26 AM »
But they have fantastic music!


I admit that Sonic 3 & Knuckles' special stages do, their background tune is extremely catchy.

Sonic 2's however is lame and annoying!
« Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 10:46:43 AM by P.P.A. »
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Offline Bilan

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Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2008, 10:45:28 AM »




The Defence was only referring to the S3K special stage music and should have made this clear in his previous statement
Did you not think I had a mind?

Offline P.P.A.

Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2008, 10:48:10 AM »
The Defence was only referring to the S3K special stage music and should have made this clear in his previous statement

Oh, that's fine then.
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Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2008, 06:14:19 PM »

Sonic 2's however is lame and annoying!

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Offline P.P.A.

Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2008, 07:05:08 AM »
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF


The defendant's argument is flawed. And denying the truth is no use anyway.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2008, 07:16:46 AM by P.P.A. »
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Offline Dead Account

Re: Sega? INCONSISTENT?! / Chaos emeralds
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2008, 08:52:49 AM »
toss in the number that there are in Archie comics.

Archie has never, does not, and never will count, ever. Ever.

he should count coz in the comic, sonic said "luckily i collected all 7 chaos emeralds, along with 50 rings and stashed them near this starpost"

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